Comments on: The Sean Bell Case, Take Two http://paulbogan.com/2008/04/30/the-sean-bell-case-take-two/ The best of everything... just a little bit late. Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:48:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: paul http://paulbogan.com/2008/04/30/the-sean-bell-case-take-two/#comment-58 paul Thu, 01 May 2008 13:02:35 +0000 http://paulbogan.com/2008/04/30/the-sean-bell-case-take-two/#comment-58 A slight edit to the above. Where it says, "I don’t think, for instance, that something like date rape is a feminist issue, any more so than I think the war in Iraq is a pacifist issue." I should instead have said: I don’t think, for instance, that something like date rape is solely a feminist issue, any more so than I think the war in Iraq is a solely pacifist issue. A slight edit to the above. Where it says, “I don’t think, for instance, that something like date rape is a feminist issue, any more so than I think the war in Iraq is a pacifist issue.” I should instead have said:
I don’t think, for instance, that something like date rape is solely a feminist issue, any more so than I think the war in Iraq is a solely pacifist issue.

]]> By: paul http://paulbogan.com/2008/04/30/the-sean-bell-case-take-two/#comment-56 paul Thu, 01 May 2008 12:51:54 +0000 http://paulbogan.com/2008/04/30/the-sean-bell-case-take-two/#comment-56 Well, thanks for the thought-fodder. :) I read both of the other posts in conjunction with yours, actually, to get a better feel for what you were writing about. My argument's moreso that I feel that framing the issue in terms of an -ism, whether it's Feminism, Marxism, Post-Colonialism, or whatever, is inherently self-limiting. I understand that those movements, and oodles of others, exist with good reason; not only is there a safety and solidarity in numbers, but the ideological cohesion can be a useful, even necessary, thing. That said, there can be a point where intellectual rigor crosses the line into ossification. I don't think, for instance, that something like date rape is a feminist issue, any more so than I think the war in Iraq is a pacifist issue. These things, and a host of others, need to be viewed in broader terms. On that note, one thing you touched on in your post bears repeating: "There can be no community of people who don’t ALL have a shared reference point, one point on which all members of the community have equal authority to speak." That community, and common reference point, already exists on the basis of our shared humanity. That's not to say there's some great Brotherhood of Man (I'm not that naive, and I'll bet good money that you're not either), but rather that we need to engage in each other's issues because at the end of the day we've all got something at stake in them. Well, thanks for the thought-fodder. :) I read both of the other posts in conjunction with yours, actually, to get a better feel for what you were writing about. My argument’s moreso that I feel that framing the issue in terms of an -ism, whether it’s Feminism, Marxism, Post-Colonialism, or whatever, is inherently self-limiting. I understand that those movements, and oodles of others, exist with good reason; not only is there a safety and solidarity in numbers, but the ideological cohesion can be a useful, even necessary, thing.

That said, there can be a point where intellectual rigor crosses the line into ossification. I don’t think, for instance, that something like date rape is a feminist issue, any more so than I think the war in Iraq is a pacifist issue. These things, and a host of others, need to be viewed in broader terms.

On that note, one thing you touched on in your post bears repeating: “There can be no community of people who don’t ALL have a shared reference point, one point on which all members of the community have equal authority to speak.” That community, and common reference point, already exists on the basis of our shared humanity. That’s not to say there’s some great Brotherhood of Man (I’m not that naive, and I’ll bet good money that you’re not either), but rather that we need to engage in each other’s issues because at the end of the day we’ve all got something at stake in them.

]]> By: apostate http://paulbogan.com/2008/04/30/the-sean-bell-case-take-two/#comment-55 apostate Thu, 01 May 2008 04:29:34 +0000 http://paulbogan.com/2008/04/30/the-sean-bell-case-take-two/#comment-55 Thanks for the link and the thoughtful post. I'll just add a couple of things. As a progressive, I care about all progressive issues, and racism is one of them. As a feminist and as someone who likes clear thinking, I want it to be acknowledged that feminism is a tool and an aid for women's issues, exclusively. This is not a box -- it's merely being accurate and it's also fulfilling a sore need. Definite identifiers impassion people and that's necessary for activism. Second, if either Feministing or Feministe had in fact *framed* the Bell case in feminist terms, I would have read with interest. They didn't. Read both original posts -- they didn't explain how this issue is feminist. Jack's follow up post is scrambling to produce that missing feminist analysis but I don't think she did a very good job. See Octogalore's analysis. Thanks for the link and the thoughtful post.

I’ll just add a couple of things. As a progressive, I care about all progressive issues, and racism is one of them. As a feminist and as someone who likes clear thinking, I want it to be acknowledged that feminism is a tool and an aid for women’s issues, exclusively.

This is not a box — it’s merely being accurate and it’s also fulfilling a sore need. Definite identifiers impassion people and that’s necessary for activism.

Second, if either Feministing or Feministe had in fact *framed* the Bell case in feminist terms, I would have read with interest. They didn’t. Read both original posts — they didn’t explain how this issue is feminist. Jack’s follow up post is scrambling to produce that missing feminist analysis but I don’t think she did a very good job. See Octogalore’s analysis.

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